SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 127 - Hereditary

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by europe1, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. FrontNakedChoke

    FrontNakedChoke ____________________

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    Found this alternate cover for the movie

    [​IMG]

    Upside down triangle around Charlie.

    "Some children are more special than others"

    Could that be in reference to Peter being more special than Charlie because he's male?
     
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  2. FrontNakedChoke

    FrontNakedChoke ____________________

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    Not sure if any of you guys have read this before...
    I don't know if this is legit or just to promote the movie.

    American actor Alex Wolff has suggested he has "some sort of PTSD" after filming the upcoming horror flick Hereditary.

    "When I started talking about it, all these flashes with all this disturbing shit I went through sorta came back in a flood," he said. "I had to absorb the pain ... it's hard to describe eloquently, it's just a feeling. I don't think you can go through something like this and not have some sort of PTSD afterwards.

    [​IMG]

    "It's weird," Wolff said. "I watched it [for] the first time and I was like, holy shit, I don't remember shooting that scene. I'm not even kidding. I was like, what the f--- is going on? I don't even remember that 100 per cent. It's strange how that could all work."

    https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...m-with-some-sort-of-ptsd-20180608-p4zkda.html

    I guess Paimon was on set for this movie. . .

    <{ByeHomer}>
     
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  3. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    I'm not sure if you two are even talking about the same thing. How did the family have no free will? Just because a lion jumps out of the bushes and devours you doesn't mean you didn't have free will. Although, I will say that once a person is possessed they are being forced to do things, but then again a man with a gun can force you to do things just as easily, but then again, the possessed may have no real means of resistance.

    Predestination and providence come to mind for me. The idea that things are predestined, like fate, is wrong according to scripture. Some things are predicted such as prophecy but that isn't predestination, its foreknowledge. The providence of God is such that all things happening come to His desk first, not one sparrow dies without the rubber stamp of approval. Not approval in the sense that God likes the bad things but approval in the sense that God is aware of all things. The point being that sometimes people don't get the spiritual protection from the providence of God for various reasons.

    What they really needed was an Exorcist. See that's where this family really fucked up. In the Exorcist, that bitch went and fetched a priest. She knew what was up. This family though, they didn't even know what was up until they got blindsided by a strong safety blitz. Ellen set them up cleverly and by the time they realized something crazy was going on it was too late. Their are strange things about that family though. Like when all this shit started happening, why didn't they at any point flee the home? You know, like a regular person would?

    Annie claims that she knows what is wrong and she caused it and she has to fix it but is this a regular reaction? Listen, if I see paranormal activity such as automatic writing, possession, contact with spirits, etc. I'm not staying in that house. That, or if I'm staying in the house I'm going to priest up like a felon looking for a lawyer. Annie does neither. The husband, Steve, believes Annie is having a psychotic episode but then he finds a dead body in the attic. He doesn't have time to do anything because he gets barbecued by Annie. Still no indication if free will was gone.

    You probably argue, yea, but its in the title bruh, Hereditary, they inherited their bad luck from birth. Did they? Or were they just the victim of a devouring lion?

    1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

    The only thing I can conclude based on the religious nature of the film is that once a person is delivered into the hands of the devil, i.e. possession, they may not have all their free will anymore, or maybe its just that the forces of hell are intelligent enough to easily outsmart humans. After all, in the Garden Lucifer easily tricked Eve to eat the fruit and we see that happen throughout scripture. I think 1 Peter 5:8 is very telling as well. Satan is on the prowl looking for whom he may devour. He isn't locked away in a fiery dungeon, he's hard at work.

    Other options could include the writer/director making a statement about the nature of mental illness. That is what is hard to understand. The director goes out of his way to make sure we see paranormal activity so that we know its not just mental illness. Then why include the mental illness? Ellen was a diagnosed DID, dissociative identity disorder, A.K.A. multiple personality disorder, her son was a schizophrenic that committed suicide, Ellen was obviously prone to episodes because Steve tried to send an e-mail concerning this problem, Charlie was not quite right in the head although we are led to believe she was possessed.

    Why is all the mental disorder history in the film if it was a genuine demonic infestation?
     
  4. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    Absolutely. We know the grandmother Ellen wanted Charlie to be a Charles. The triangle in the film with a picture of Peter in the middle signified the cult trying to allow Paimon to possess Peter. The triangle over Charlie would indicate the same thing, that Paimon was possessing Charlie at some point, likely since birth. So check this out, I was reading up on this topic and came across this.

    To most people, triangles are simply three-sided symbols or objects that are found in a variety of every day applications, such as mathematics, engineering or surveying. However, to occultists and others familiar with the occult arts, triangles have a deeper, spiritual meaning. To the occult, triangles represent a merging of the spiritual and earthly realms and are considered symbolic or “spiritual triangles”. More specifically, spiritual triangles represent triune gods (or god of three) as well as identify geographical spiritual gateways (geographic areas of demonic activity and influence on earth) found on such things as maps or plats. Even truncated triangles and truncated triangular shapes, such as a pyramid, have spiritual meaning to the occult.

    In antiquity, "… triangles were conceived by the ancients to explain the secret order of the cosmos”.[1] Pagans believed that triangles symbolically revealed that three spirits were brought down into the geographical or the worldly realm. For example, Baal-Shalisha, a pagan god of three,[2] is mentioned in the Bible in 2 Kings 4:42. In other words, “a god of three” or triune god would be a composite of three different deities. The worship of triune gods was prevalent throughout ancient civilizations with the names of the triune varying from region to region.


    Paimon is attended by two lesser kings of hell.

    <{Joewithit}>
    <TheWire1>
     
  5. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    Yea there have been other weird ones as well. On the set of The Passion of the Christ, Jim Caviezel, who played Jesus was struck by lightning. Jan Michelini the assistant director was struck by lightning twice during the filming.

    Then in Rosemary's baby you have this...

    The second film in a trilogy by director (and alleged pedophile) Roman Polanski, Rosemary's Baby seemed to summon up a terrifying collection of tragedies for those associated with the film. Polanski's pregnant wife, Sharon Tate, was murdered by Charlie Manson's clan a year after the movie's release. Producer William Castle would suddenly suffer kidney failure after receiving hate mail about the film, and the film's composer died of a sudden blood clot, making Rosemary's Baby the creepiest baby of all time, narrowly beating out little Ashley Olsen.

    Also The Exorcist.

    Based on a true-ish story, the curse surrounding this film is presumably because the devil didn't want his dealings exposed on the silver screen. Actress Ellen Burstyn wrote about the inexplicable anxiety on set in her 2006 autobiography, which was a feeling perpetuated by constant electrical problems on set, the death of Jack MacGowran just days after finishing filming, and an unexplained fire. Crew on the film came to believe that the devil was responsible for ongoing injuries and tensions, but he apparently couldn't stop it from becoming the ninth highest-grossing film of all time.
    https://www.looper.com/628/movie-sets-completely-cursed/
     
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  6. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    Annie doing all of that during her sleepwalking is way to excessive. I just assumed it was Joan. The big question is, how did Joan get the body to their estate?

    They said the same things about the Omen films.

    Look how that turned out.

    I'm pretty sure there are writings on the hierarchy of hell even in pre-Christian times, going all the way back to the Zoroastrian period.

    I remember reading some Medieval manuscript where a person detailed a vision they had about going to hell. He described himself swallowed by a giant demon... and then the entire process of traveling through the demon's digestive system, stomach, bowels, colon, everything... before finally popping out at the other end.

    Sometimes you forget that Medival people had a pretty rad sense of imagination as well:D

    Actually, scientists writing about religion and theology was the norm in those days. Religion was considered just another science like physics or math (the best science, in fact). Actually, this was a huge problem for the advance of science back then. You had a huge brain drain from science into religious writing, robbing scientific development of some of its best and brightest.

    For example (and this is a non-Christian example but the phenomenon still applies) the Muslim doctor Avicenna wrote the best and most accessible book on medicine during the entire middle-ages, The Canon of Medicine, which was used all the way from China to Europe up until the 1800th century. What did he do after that? Write about religion, of course, wasting all of his medicinal talents in the process.

    It was about trying to connect Jesus to the line of David, whose progeny were the Jews prophecized savior. That was important stuff to the early jews who were the first to become Christian. When Christianity moved away from its jewish heritage, that ceased becoming so central, because non-jews just didn't have that historic veneration of David's line the way Jews did.

    How very Catholic of you.

    Oh please Pagans as a whole had no uniform opinion on triangles what so ever. Saying hundreds of different religions have some sort of opinions on this is just ignorance.
     
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  7. Rimbaud82

    Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

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    I thought this was really good, thankfully for me it was the kind of tense psychological (for most of the film) horror rather than the kind with lots of jump scares. It still had me on edge the entire time though. Scenes like the one with Peter just sitting in the car after the accident were extremely unsettling to me. The horror seems to, at first, come from things like that (and, of course, the grief of the family in general) rather than anything supernatural or occult (even though it's consistently hinted at). I can see where some think it's a bit over-long and has them just waiting for the occult stuff to start happening, maybe two hours was a tad long, but I didn't mind the pacing. When everything goes to shit in the last 45 mins or so I found it be really intense because of the way it had been building towards, by that stage there was almost a sense of inevitability to it.

    I have to say that, I did see the 'twist' with Joan and the cult coming a mile away. Not the specifics, but as soon as she approached Annie I thought to myself that she was going to be involved in some kind of sinister way.

    The performances were all really good as well, Toni Collette has an excellent scream face.

    And now I am off to EEBO to investigate King Paimon.....
     
  8. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    The first Omen is something the SMC should watch. The 2nd was not as good but still not a total disaster, IMDb gave it 6.1/10. It did not live up to the hype of the first one though, that's for sure.

    Absolutely but I was referring specifically to this set of demons that are called by name, including King Paimon. I can trace it at least to the 1300's but it was probably around before that.

    Well, Dante didn't make it out to be such a nice place either.

    [​IMG]

    That's one way of looking at it but religious men have contributed to science over and over. The father of human genetics, Gregor Mendel, was an Augustinian Friar. One of the smartest men who ever lived was Isaac Newton and he was obsessed with biblical prophecy. He gave us calculus and physics as well as being a front-runner in the field of optics.

    I think you might be surprised. My experience with American churches is that Christians are still very very much aware of those bloodlines and significance. Why do you think Americans shit themselves if every president, regardless if Democrat or Republican, supports Israel to the fullest extent. To the death even. Want to start a world war, just march on Israel and see what America is forced to do about it.

    I'm not Catholic btw, I think they have a lot of shit embarrassingly wrong.

    My point with the triangles is there is a long history of occult use with them, not really about pagans. Here is some additional commentary about their use in magic rituals.

    A downward pointed triangle represents feminine energy, as it mimics the triangle shape of a woman’s sacral region. An upward facing triangle is associated with more masculine energy, and is sometimes referred to as a blade. Using triangles to represent male or female energy is another great use for representing specific energies for rituals or magical work.

    So there is a downward triangle here because Charlie is a girl.

    [​IMG]

    And there was an upward triangle in Joan's apartment with a picture of Peter in it because he is a male. This movie took the time to get a lot of this shit correct.
     
  9. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    Some people refer to it as The Witch of 2018 because it is similar in its low burn intensity and harsh twist at the end. I really felt the last act of this film paid off for me. Some other members of the club didn't feel that way. I felt the acting was excellent from most of the cast. I also feel like its so hard to make good horror. These films don't come along too often. Think about it, your Top 10 Horror is WAY WAY easier to make than say your Top 10 Drama because there are so few excellent horror films. I honestly think Hereditary cracks my Top 10. I think its Top 10 worthy.

    As far as Joan, I did not pick up on it at all for some reason. Even after she taught her how to do a seance I still didn't pick up on her involvement in the cult. I should have though because the cult was present in weird ways throughout the film. The funeral of Ellen, for example, showed Annie says, there are a lot of faces here I don't recognize. I can't find the clip but there were cult members there smiling at Charlie, like, we know you are Paimon, wink wink.
     
  10. FrontNakedChoke

    FrontNakedChoke ____________________

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    In the old days they used to think Mentally ill people were just possessed by demons.
    That could be the reason why.

    Also, if paranormal stuff started happening to you I'm sure you'd question your own sanity as well. It makes sense to me that the two go hand in hand. Especially since we're dealing with demonic entities, the battle that the devil fights is for your mind.
     
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  11. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    In post #13 I touched on this. While tracing all the books talking about King Paimon I came across a man named Reginald Scot. In 1584 a man named Reginald Scot wrote a book called The Discoverie of Witchcraft in which he studied 212 authors, mostly ancient texts in Latin, as well as Weyer's book of demons. It is interesting to note that Scot wanted to prove that Witchcraft and belief in demons was caused my mental disturbances. This ties in to the alternate idea in the film Hereditary that schizophrenia was the cause.

    Even so, is it possible that Annie and Peter were schizophrenic or DID and one or both of them essentially killed the family, hallucinating everything and what we see is their hallucinations?
     
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  12. Rimbaud82

    Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

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    Not analysing anything here but here's a few references I found after a very quick search on EEBO. For curiosities sake anyway. Maybe there will be some connections to make if @MusterX hasn't got there first, I haven't gone through his post in detail yet.

    According to this book from 1688

    [​IMG]
    This one from 1651 (reprint of an older Reginald Scot book it seems):
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    What is EEBO?

    I figured the sound of the approach of Paimon, which is described as musical instruments, horns, cymbals, and also as a "tinkling like a small bell" is where Charlie's clicking noise comes from. That's the movies take on the "tinkling"....maybe. Also, at the end of the film when Peter ascends into the treehouse, you can hear cymbals in the score. I can't find that clip though. For some reason there aren't very many clips of this film yet.
     
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  14. Rimbaud82

    Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

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    EEBO is short for Early English Books Online, an online database.

    That makes a lot of sense, excellent observation. You can absolutely hear music and cymbals. The director must have definitely done his homework. I have screencapped the scene:

     
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  15. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    Excellent, horns and cymbals. Such a beautiful sound for such an evil creature. When I researched this Paimon demon I got the impression that the writer or director did research the occult so that it was accurate. For example, when Ellen is possessed by Paimon and flying around, that is consistent with Paimon who is listed as having the power of flight.

    Paimon's abilities include, "knowledge of past and future events, clearing up doubts, making spirits appear, creating visions, acquiring and dismissing servant spirits, reanimating the dead for several years, flight, remaining underwater indefinitely, and general abilities to 'make all kinds of things' (and) 'all sorts of people and armor appear.'"

    This also brings up the little known theory that Lucifer was the head of the angelic choir in Heaven.

    Ezekiel 28:13
    Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.


    Tabrets and pipes is most likely a reference to musical instruments. This also ties in to some conspiracy theories about why the music industry seems to have so many people who say they sold their soul to the devil and why there are so many unseemly videos with satanic messages. Lucifer was in some way connected to music. So it makes sense to me that Paimon would have the sound of music as he approaches because he is the king most loyal to Lucifer.
     
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  16. Yotsuya

    Yotsuya Green Belt

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    Looks like Heriditary will be released in Finland in December. No streaming service has it. Why the hell did I vote for it?
    <{hughesimpress}>
     
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  17. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    By being destined to Hell. Earthly possession beyond their control is one thing. Your soul being hi-jacked and taken to Hell is another. The New Testament teaches that we go to Heaven by the grace of God. What stops any or all of the family from accepting Jesus, asking for forgiveness, and going to Heaven? Apparently genetics. :eek:


    Even with the comment about Joan's doormat being like ones Annie's mom used to make?
     
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  18. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    I could have been hammered at the time.

    Some of these things have been bothering me so I've been watching some videos and reading some articles. I came across this video and its 20 minutes of interviews with the director and actors. Some of it gives some hints. The actress that played Annie says Hereditary is about inheriting family trauma. "I think ultimately its about inheriting family trauma. Its about what you take from your family or whats thrust upon you and how you deal with it."

    I don't know if that helps. Were they destined to hell? Its a pretty good watch if you are bored. Also @europe1 , you should hear some mention of something or other pagan at the 17:00 minute mark. #snicker

     
  19. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    That's certainly an aspect. Does the actress touch on whether or not the family is supposed to wind up in Hell or not? Sorry, can't watch the vid right now.
     
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  20. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    No. They don't go so far as to explain EXACTLY what all the meanings of the film are but both her and the director seem stuck on the idea of the family dynamic. The director talked a lot about the reason why the film was a slow burn was to allow the viewer to connect with the characters so that when something bad happened you were invested in their plight.

    So I guess the family was inheriting "family trauma", they were inheriting mental illness, and they were inheriting a religious experience that happens to be on the wrong team. It does bother me that it appears to be a legitimate cult based demon summoning while at the same time making damn sure he lets you know everyone involved is batshit crazy. Everyone is bipolar, schizophrenic, and dissociative identity disorder.
     

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