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SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Let's pick the Week 128 movie!

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by europe1, Oct 10, 2018.

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Let's pick the week 128 Movie

Poll closed Oct 12, 2018.
  1. Race With the Devil (1975)

    23.8%
  2. Five Element Ninjas (1982)

    33.3%
  3. Deep Cover (1992)

    28.6%
  4. Zulu (1964)

    14.3%
  1. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    Favorite 10 directors (not ranked)

    Kubrick
    Best: The Shining (really a tie between 5 films though)
    Worst: Fear and Desire

    Kurusawa
    Best: Seven Samurai
    Worst: Scandal

    Fritz Lang
    Best: Metropolis (alongside Siegfried and Fury)
    Worst: Woman on the Moon or Harakiri, I guess (not counting Journey to the Lost City since that was 2 of his movies compiled into one)

    John Carpenter
    Best: The Thing
    Worst: Escape From LA

    Dario Argento
    Best: Suspiria
    Worst: Mother of Tears

    Mario Bava
    Best: The Girl Who Knew Too Much
    Worst: The Giant of Maraton (though he was one of 3 directors on that one. Not counting House of Excorcism since that is a re-edit)

    Jean-Pierre Melville
    Best: Army of Shadows
    Worst: A Cop

    Scorcese
    Best: Silence
    Worst: Aviator

    Leone
    Best: Once Upon A Time in the West
    Worst: The Colossus of Rhodes

    Cirio H Santiago
    Best: Wheels of Fire
    Worst: Fly Me
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  2. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    As a Brit the idea of someone not having seen Zulu seems alien to me, that film is shown so often during holiday season its not true. Still though I think very good cinema and arguably THE defining depiction of a defensive battle, the likes of Helms Deep clearly draw a lot of influence from it IMHO.

    Honestly the best/worst would be quite difficult for me simply because I don't generally tend to seek out absolutely everything someone has ever done unless all of it is well acclaimed, I mean with Kubrick for example I'v not seen anything before Paths of Glory although I'v been meaning to get around to The Killing for awhile. There's just too much great cinema to watch/rewatch to get bogged down into that kind of thing for me.

    To cheat a long list of bests....

    The Coens - Millers Crossing
    Kubrick - 2OO1: A Space Odsessy
    Tarkovsky - Andrei Rublev
    Sergio Leone - Once Upon A Time in America
    Ridley Scott - Blade Runner
    Miyazaki - Porco Rosso
    Scorsese - Taxi Driver
    Carpenter - The Thing
    Bergman - Persona
    Kieslowski - A Short Film About Killing
    Godard - Contempt
    Kurosawa - Yojimbo
    Tarantino - Pulp Fiction
    Coppola - Apocalypse Now
    Glazer - Under The Skin
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  3. Yotsuya

    Yotsuya Green Belt

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    Five of my favourite directors from whom I’ve also seen very bad movies from:

    Mann: Heat/ Blackhat
    Tarantino: Jackie Brown/Django Unchained
    Cronenberg: Dead Ringers/Cosmopolis
    Bruno Mattei: SS Girls/Shocking Dark
    Jess Franco: Eugenie/Incubus
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  4. Yotsuya

    Yotsuya Green Belt

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    I’d love to see Tarantino to work again based on someone else’s writing. He’s definetly an interesting writer on his own right and I love the weird pacing of Inglorious Bastards for example, but I think he could achieve so much more it he tried to make another subtle and laidback movie like JB for a change.
     
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  5. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    Honestly I just felt Jackie Brown really wasn't playing to his strengths, besides snappy dialog I think his big strength as a director is building tension, I mean I love well made films with a sedate atmosphere to them but to me this really wasn't that effective. The Hateful Eight for me was much more Tarantino making a "serious" film to his strengths again and I think arguably the best thing he's done since Pulp Fiction. Indeed I think it would make for a very good choice for discussion since its obviously got a lot of politics mixed in to it.
     
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  6. Yotsuya

    Yotsuya Green Belt

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    I think Tarantino’s greatest strenght is building strong and interesting characters and his greatest weakness is getting so self-absorbed in those characters, that he forgets how to be a good storyteller.

    Hatefull Eight was hardly enjoyable at all for me, but I did like it better than Django the Oscar Bait.
     
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  7. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    Hateful Eight was arguably the most nuanced characters(Jackson and Goggins characters anyway) in his career I would say and largely kept focused on its central story.

    I just don't see Tarantino as well suited to making more laid back crime epics, his focus on character and tension I think is better suited to small groups of characters in confined spaces. Something like Goodfellas, the Godfathers or Once Upon A Time in America or even Millers Crossing depends I think more on slower builds of character and a strong focus on a wider setting.

    Jackie Brown felt like it was the kind of role he could have fallen back into for the rest of his career trading on diminishing returns from Pulp Fiction whilst making Marty style crime epics that tend to get the greatest critical praise but I'm glad he didn't go down that path as again I don't think it suits his talents.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  8. Yotsuya

    Yotsuya Green Belt

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    Hateful Eight was interesting attempt but it fell short. Tarantino just isn't quite a genius enough to pull out Lars von Trier -type of unpleasant minimalism. He can be pretty damn tacky and that shows in HE. He went from trying to please his audience to trying to challenge them, so at least that's something new.

    Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown were the exact opposite of what Scorsese was/is doing. I don't see that career trajectory at all. You call Goodfellas laid back? You think JB was epic? You completely lost me here.
     
  9. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    I'd say Goodfellas is right up Tarantino's alley. He best at character and dialogue driven scenes with tension, sometimes mixing in the violence. Goodfellas has scenes like that in spades. I can imagine Tarantino's take on pretty much every one of them. And hey, they're sitting around tables and at bars a lot, which is his forte.
     
  10. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    [​IMG]

    Worse than ET!?

    The man gave you flying Piranhas!? What more do you want?:D

    [​IMG]

    To be fair his contributions were probably the best part of Caligula.

    [​IMG]

    I forgot to list Hitchi as one of my favorite directors. Personally... my worst Hitchcock movie is easily Juno and the Paycock. That movie is a flaming piece of garbage.

    Robin Hood easily. God that movie made me want to claw my eyes out.

    I've never seen that one but just looking at the IMDB premise...

    Premise: World War II propaganda film about female volunteer workers at an optics plant who do their best to meet production targets.

    Wow... yeah that really sounds like a propaganda movie. And I thought Scandal was his worst movie:D

    [​IMG]

    Raise the Red Lanter is in contention for best Chinese film of all time (alongside Woo action). It's sort of amazing how Yimou just stopped making artistic pieces and then went full studio with stuff like Great Wall.

    Wait, you think Shocking Dark (aka: Terminator 2) sucks?

    This is the end of our friendship, Yotsuya! I never wish to hear from you again.:D

    Personally, I think Caligula and Messalina sucks the most.
     
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  11. GSPSAKU

    GSPSAKU Brown Belt

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    The Most Beautiful wasn't bad but by Kurasawa standards, it was piss poor.

    And I agree on Zhang Yimou's films. Watching his early work made me fall in love with Gong Li. Gong Li aside, his first 5-6 films that he directed, I think, were the best 5-6 FIRST films ever for a director. All were great pieces of work that pulled at the human heart. Once he lost Gong Li, he seemed to lose his passion for film making as well for a few years. Had a few more very good/great films and then Great Wall came. I refused to watch it so I have Keep Cool as the worst one although Great Wall could easily be the worst.
     
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  12. jei

    jei Danger Zone Admin Staff Member Forum Administrator

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    Well it's funny, Kubrick's body of work is really only 14 films, and I've seen probably 12 of those. Never saw Fear and Desire, never saw Killer's Kiss. Everything else though...which is why Lolita falls to the bottom. I have a special place in my heart for 2001, a film a lot of people hate. When it comes to Kubrick though, it's tricky, because it's hard to find a not great movie out of that lot. So then it falls to me to pick out the least best. I rewatched it a few months ago and did not look upon it as fondly, not from a judgmental perspective but more from a 'holding my interest' perspective.


    No, as evidenced by my diatribe in the Raging Bull thread, I am not a fan of this film in the slightest. It irritated me right down to my core.

    As Bullitt aptly recognized, I have not seen a lot of his work from the 20s, as it was just completely unavailable for me to watch growing up and even now it's elusive. I think the earliest Hitchcock I've seen is Murder! which means I'm missing like 10 of his earliest films. I'm not as well versed on films from the 20s and 30s as I'd like to be, but it is what it is. I can probably count the number of Hitchcock's 30s movies I've seen on one hand, and then starting in on his from the 40s on I've seen the lion's share.

    That said, The Birds is just a movie I never saw why people loved. It has been several years since I watched it last but when I think of Hitchcock films I think of depth and interpretation and all I got was a bunch of birds attacking people for no reason, just because. Relatively it might be superior to several of Hitchcock's early films but it just was completely lacking for me. It's one of those "classic" films that isn't classic for me in the slightest.
     
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  13. Yotsuya

    Yotsuya Green Belt

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    Heh, you could be right about Calugula and Messalina. For me Shocking Dark was the biggest disappointment from Mattei, because the consept was pure gold and expectations skyhigh.

    Yes! The first hour is very good. Gore Vidal’s script is also great.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  14. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    Tommy in Goodfella's could definitely be a Tarantino character and a few scenes with him do feel like his work but I think the film as a whole is more a slow burn character wise and also depends very heavily on building up the setting.

    I mean turn it around and I think Tarantino might well have made a better version of Infernal Affairs/The Departed than Marty did, that film to me felt like it was trying to shift towards his typical crime epic style really building the setting when I think really it needed to be a much more intense thriller like the original.
     
  15. Xuh

    Xuh Black Belt

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    [​IMG]

    ...actually I've not seen this, but it's towards the top of my long-list of movies to watch when I finally go into a phase of feeling like sitting my ass down for 2 hours and watching some movies, based on the review it gets in my guide to post apocalyptic movies:

    (spoilers ahoy)

    This has to be one of the grimmest Road Warrior knock-offs ever. Trace (Gary Watkins) is the Mad Max look-alike in this one, and he drives around the wasteland looking for trouble. He goes back home to reunite with his buxom blonde sister, Arlie (Played by Playboy centerfold Lynda Wiesmeier). It turns out that she has a scumbag boyfriend who doesn't appreciate her for who she is inside, and the two of them end up being captured by roving savage warriors, who by now we know are only interested in rape and killing innocents. Trace, with the help of Stinger (a cool Amazon chick) and a telepathic orphan named Spike, decides to rescue his sister from the clutches of the evil ones. Poor Wiesmeier. After she gets raped the first time, you lose a little hope. After being raped for the sixth or seventh time (who's counting?), hope is a distant memory, and the poor girl doesn't seem to be acting anymore. When Trace finally rescues her, we start hoping a little bit again, at least to see her get away. Then she gets shot. Then she crawls. Then she gets shot again. Then she dies. It's a tough one.
    If anyone is to blame, it should be the director, Cirio Santiago, who made a slew of these. The worst part of it all is that less than five minutes after his sister and his sidekick, Stinger, who'd become his lover, both get killed, Trace drives off in his car at the end with a smile on his face! This featured an early score by Chris Young, who became an in-demand Hollywood composer.


    I'm guessing this is the movie you pop on when you get the date home for that all-important first 'netflix and chill' session, so she can get to know the real you.
     
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  16. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    I voted for the film I thought least likely to win... guess I was wrong.

    What a poor review. It didn't even mention the mutated cannibal dwarfs!:p

    Bah! As the review says. Cirio made like 12 Mad Max rip-offs like this one! You need to maraton all of them in one sitting!

    Yeah... right after you've tied her up Clockwork Orange style!<45>
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  17. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Titanium Belt

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    Here I've been thinking QT's greatest contribution to cinema is his writing and that it'd be nice to see someone else direct one of his scripts. True Romance and Natural Born Killers attest to this by being better than nearly all of his directorial efforts.


    At the time ET was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. Including Star Wars and Empire.


    You're right. But I needed a worst and went with our running Caligula joke. I also made a point of phrasing it as "contributing to" because the rest of the film is so terrible. :eek::cool:
     
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  18. Bullitt68

    Bullitt68 Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Damn it, now I'm confused again. If the @ blast is organized chronologically, then why is this noob listed before me? And unless moreorless was a member before, shouldn't he be listed after me, too?

    [​IMG]

    Our first viewings were similar, but we diverge on our second viewings. I went in accepting it for what it is and ended up hating it more for being what it is :oops:

    Oh, definitely. Even for me, it took a few viewings for me to really love Jackie Brown. Initially, it was an afterthought to Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. After a while, though, it's almost like its awesomeness snuck up on me, like it was just patiently lying in wait, biding its time until I realized how truly amazing it is.

    I think I'm a bigger fan of his, then. Over time, Reservoir Dogs dropped a lot in my esteem (both it and True Romance are very immature films that I don't think are nearly as awesome as I did when I was an immature 13-year-old), but Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill (I never break them up by volumes, I always consider it one entity) blew me away and represent his crowning achievements, yet Inglourious Basterds and The Hateful Eight are also impressive as fuck. I like to reserve judgment on a film until I've seen it twice in case it's just that first viewing high, but I saw The Hateful Eight in theaters and Tarantino hasn't knocked my socks off like that since Kill Bill.

    [​IMG]

    I remember @Ricky13 mentioning in the SMD that he thought Silence might be Scorsese's best. You think that, too? @Sigh GunRanger reminded me recently that I hadn't seen it so I tried it and I tapped out inside of half an hour.

    What's your take on it? And feel free to just copy-and-paste shit you've said in the past if you've already talked about it in detail on here.

    You know, this gives me the opportunity to mention: After our conversation about Once Upon a Time in America, moreorless, and our conversation about Once Upon a Time in the West, europe, I recently rewatched them both and, much to my surprise, I actually think Once Upon a Time in the West is the superior film now. Obviously, this is basically splitting hairs, as they're both among the GOAT, but this was like the tenth time I'd watched Once Upon a Time in the West yet I was just fucking bowled over like I'd never seen it before. It was a tremendous experience, which is so bizarre when dealing with something you're so familiar with, but it had my jaw on the floor. It's not that Once Upon a Time in America was disappointing or that it'd lost its luster; Once Upon a Time in the West just struck me as a better realized, more coherent, and more powerful film.

    You think Miami Vice is better than Blackhat? Regarding the latter, I was actually puzzled by the hate.

    Heat is of course #1, though. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about Collateral?

    I'm not a big literature buff, so I don't have any answers to this question, but whose work do you think would be suitable to a Tarantino adaptation?

    I'm with you on the tension in The Hateful Eight, and you're right that Jackie Brown didn't have much in the way of the "pressure cooker" intensity that Tarantino usually brings to his stuff, but to say that he wasn't playing to his strengths isn't to say that any weaknesses were exposed. Not only did he still manage to build tension effectively (like when Ordell visits Jackie when she gets released as well as, most notably, the switcheroo sequence), he also showcased a wider array of filmmaking skills and showed that his directorial range was wider than people may have been thinking at the time and may still think even today.

    [​IMG]

    No way. It's a great film and they're great characters, but they take a backseat to Vincent Vega, The Bride, Budd, and Bill. Budd IMO is Tarantino's GOAT character, and that's excluding Michael Madsen's brilliant portrayal; including it, it's not even a contest.

    First off, welcome. Second, no fucking way.

    Stanley Kubrick: Fear and Desire, Killer's Kiss, The Killing, Paths of Glory, Spartacus, and Lolita.

    Sergio Leone: The Colossus of Rhodes, A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, Once Upon a Time in the West, and A Fistful of Dynamite.

    Martin Scorsese: Boxcar Bertha, Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Taxi Driver, New York, New York, and Raging Bull.

    John Huston: The Maltese Falcon, In This Our Life, Across the Pacific, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Key Largo, and We Were Strangers.

    Orson Welles: Citizen Kane, The Magnificent Ambersons, Journey into Fear (how much he directed is up for speculation but most people credit it to Welles), The Stranger, The Lady from Shanghai, and Macbeth.

    And that's just five directors off the top of my head. Even having only seen two of those first six films of Yimou's, I'm pretty confident that his top six aren't topping any of the above's top six.

    That's what I figured. I still wouldn't have Lolita at the bottom based on what you've seen (I'd rank it above both The Killing and Spartacus), but now I have a better sense of where you're coming from.

    See, I have a special place in my heart for Lolita. Nobody really hates it, but nobody seems to really love it, either. It just gets rolled up with all the other Kubricks. It's never singled out in any way for anything. But I fucking love that movie. From James Mason's pathetic lead to Shelley Winters' insufferable yet sympathetic shrew to Peter Sellers' batshit loon, I love it all so much :D

    [​IMG]

    This is a serious situation. I'm scared to look your diatribe up, but I think I'm going to have to. I have to know. I have to understand.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Dude, just...no. Natural Born Killers is just straight-up bad, so it's not even in the conversation as far as I'm concerned, but even True Romance, it's not bad but it's also not anywhere near the level that Tarantino was operating in virtually every other film of his.
     
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  19. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Titanium Belt

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    lol


    If only the club would force another viewing upon me. :D


    You probably are at this point. But even so, you aren't a bigger fan now than I was then. :cool:

    Not sure what you mean by immature. If you're saying Res Dogs and True Romance hold no appeal for adults then I'll disagree. Kill Bills would be my next favorite stuff by him. Jackie, Death Proof, and Django are the only ones that didn't entertain me much. It's not like I'm saying post Pulp Fiction films suck. They just weren't the amazing experiences that Dogs and Fiction were at the time.


    For me personally it's Manhunter.


    NBK is bad by what objective measure? Stone did some great stuff with that film (casting Woody, casting Rodney, using everything from color to black & white to animation, putting a laugh track behind Rodney when he's saying some of the most vile shit ever put to screen, putting a mirror in the face of society, etc.).

    True Romance is one of the most fun and re-watchable films ever made (if you like a mix of action and comedy). Tony Scott's best work. Unlike NBK, QT was pleased with how Scott handled things. The original script starts of with the Hopper/Walken scene (that QT says is the greatest scene he's ever written) and then backtracks in typical QT non-chronological editing. Scott rearranged it and QT commented on how having the best scene in the middle of the film would ordinarily be a no-no, but Scott was able to make it work based on the strength of everything around it. The tension in the stand-off scene was so well done. Gandolfini putting a whoopin' on Arquette was brutal. All the little characters were great (Floyd, Dick Ritchie, Drexil, etc.). Slater was perfect. Can't imagine what more that film could have done to make it better.
     
  20. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    Its certainly not a bad film I'd agree, by typical standards its still a pretty good one but for me not up to the level of his very best work which tends more towards as you say"pressure cooker" tension and more immediate characters. As I said I think he could probably have spent the rest of his career making this kind of film with decent success but I think he would have gradually trailed into artistic irrelevance if he had. That's why I think the old "I wish he could have stayed making films like his 90's work" for me doesn't really hold up for me, I think he tried it and realised he'd need to move beyond it.
    I didn't say "best" or "most memorable" of course but most nuanced and I think they do have a good case there as two of the most rounded characters he's come up with who don't always behave in easily predictable ways, Budd would be another contender I'd agree.

    As far as best first five films go I'd have to anger you again and say its clearly Tarkovsky for me with his five Soviet releases.
     

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